teamfatboy wrote:

Chillicat wrote:Oh buggeration - I've left my gym shoes at home.

SHOES :grin:

got em!

Yay, back to the gym today. First 7s team sighting. Saw 2 vans in the carpark, one with a kiwi flag and one with a USA flag. Saw the NZ boys but no sign of any Americans though, and van gone when I left.

Legs #1 today, or 'big legs' as I like to call this workout - Smith squats and lunges, stiff legged deads and some calf raises to round things off.

Continued with my 5x5s on the squats and lunges, same weights as last week as that was pretty hard last week and had me sore for days afterwards (coupled with the fact that I'm nervous about my old lady knees, which is why I stick with the Smith).

Deads were good - upped weight from my previous 35kg which I'd been doing 3x12 with to 37.5kg for 5x5. Didn't find that overly difficult so might try 40kg next week.

Tried out the standing calf raise machine today. In the past I've been doing seated calf raises out of habit more than anything else, but as my weights get higher I'm finding it a bit awkward, so thought I'd give the standing one a go. Still workout out what weight is best on that one - started on around bodyweight but that was way too light. Did 4 sets x10 but upped it each time to around 80-something for the last set. Will start on the 80-something next time, as that wasn't overly difficult as a final set.

Part 2 this evening - more weights, back and biceps. No nice looking 7s players due to being at J'ville. Needed to do 2 weights workouts in one day due to shoe debacle yesterday. Just a quick half hour in and out jobbie this evening, heavier weights than usual and 5x5s, bent over rows, lat pulldowns, EZ bar curls and some concentration curls. Had intended to do some chins and pull ups, but the bar was in use, so do that next time.

I'm realising that I haven't been pushing myself adequately as I'm able to do the complete 5x5 with the increased weight - with difficulty with the EZ bar, but without huge difficulty with the other weights. So I guess that means I'm getting stronger and need to work harder to make further gains. I'm wary of injuring myself and going overboard though, so I'll just take it one exercise at a time and work on increasing either weights or reps if I'm finding the 5x5 isn't pushing me the way it should.

Nice to hear you reporting the strength gains, CC.... slow but steady increases in the weights is the way to go. Even the Stronglifts 5x5 programme only calls for adding a pair of the little 1.25kg plates for increases on a big exercise like squats.

You may well find that muscle-memory (the way "good form feels") helps you maintain correct form, and that, along with the extra strength you've clearly demonstrated will help safeguard against injuries.

As for the calf raises, doesn't surprise me that you found bodyweight easy, what with all the walking you do.

Keep it up!

Chillicat wrote:Continued with my 5x5s on the squats and lunges, same weights as last week as that was pretty hard last week and had me sore for days afterwards (coupled with the fact that I'm nervous about my old lady knees, which is why I stick with the Smith).

How are you squatting that the Smith machine is easier on your knees than the back squat?

That thing and the leg press are both murder on my knees, but free squats are painless.

Deads were good - upped weight from my previous 35kg which I'd been doing 3x12 with to 37.5kg for 5x5. Didn't find that overly difficult so might try 40kg next week.

I've seen a few comments from you about wanting your DL to go up. Do you always do them after squats? Do you have a plan to improve over time?

Not trying to be a butt-insky, just curious

ThePman wrote:

Chillicat wrote:Continued with my 5x5s on the squats and lunges, same weights as last week as that was pretty hard last week and had me sore for days afterwards (coupled with the fact that I'm nervous about my old lady knees, which is why I stick with the Smith).

How are you squatting that the Smith machine is easier on your knees than the back squat?

That thing and the leg press are both murder on my knees, but free squats are painless.

It's more the lunges than squats that give me trouble. When I do pump classes I often skip lunges and do extra squats, as I used to get knee pain with lunges but not with squats. I've been using the Smith largely because I started using it about a year ago and never tried using freeweights for squats when I moved away from the pump floor to the big kids' gym. I only did squats on it at first, and introduced lunges about 6 months ago to see how the knees took it. So far so good, though they do twinge a bit generally when I walk up stairs.

Maybe I should just try freeweights?

Deads were good - upped weight from my previous 35kg which I'd been doing 3x12 with to 37.5kg for 5x5. Didn't find that overly difficult so might try 40kg next week.

I've seen a few comments from you about wanting your DL to go up. Do you always do them after squats? Do you have a plan to improve over time?

Not trying to be a butt-insky, just curious [/quote]

Well that's why I have a journal - so people can butt in and set me straight! Yes, I have been doing them after squats, but I guess that's maybe not such a good idea? I was thinking of alternating squats with deads when I do leg workouts - do you think that would help? I'm just always amazed at the weights other girls are doing for their deads, and mine are piddly.

In terms of a plan to improve... well, I'm just using my standard improvement plan (which is based on no science whatsoever I should add, just 'what I think might work' ), and involves cycles of 5x5 at the heaviest I can manage for about that many sets and reps for 4-6 weeks. After that I try to belt out sets of 8 for another cycle of 4-6 weeks, then sets of 10-12. Once I'm up to sets of 10-12 I then up the weight and start the cycle again with 5x5.

Doing it that way looks very slow though - I wouldn't be ready to try another higher weight for 3-4 months, so I might need to rethink that if I want to deadlift bodyweight this year

Chillicat wrote:It's more the lunges than squats that give me trouble. When I do pump classes I often skip lunges and do extra squats, as I used to get knee pain with lunges but not with squats. I've been using the Smith largely because I started using it about a year ago and never tried using freeweights for squats when I moved away from the pump floor to the big kids' gym. I only did squats on it at first, and introduced lunges about 6 months ago to see how the knees took it. So far so good, though they do twinge a bit generally when I walk up stairs.

Maybe I should just try freeweights?

Interesting. Do you have any history of knee injuries? If not, have you ever done a lot of long-distance running?

Generally I'm a fan of staying away from the Smith as a main movement, because it's really not at all the same as the free movement.

Also: This is long (about 50 minute) but absolutely invaluable RE: learning to squat.

Well that's why I have a journal - so people can butt in and set me straight! Yes, I have been doing them after squats, but I guess that's maybe not such a good idea? I was thinking of alternating squats with deads when I do leg workouts - do you think that would help? I'm just always amazed at the weights other girls are doing for their deads, and mine are piddly.

You can mix squats and pulls on the same day, but *generally* you don't want to work them both heavy if you do - they overlap too many muscles so one will inevitably suffer from fatigue.

If you're interested in getting stronger, I'd do them on separate days, maybe squat Monday and pull Thursday, or something to that effect.

In terms of a plan to improve... well, I'm just using my standard improvement plan (which is based on no science whatsoever I should add, just 'what I think might work' ), and involves cycles of 5x5 at the heaviest I can manage for about that many sets and reps for 4-6 weeks. After that I try to belt out sets of 8 for another cycle of 4-6 weeks, then sets of 10-12. Once I'm up to sets of 10-12 I then up the weight and start the cycle again with 5x5.

Doing it that way looks very slow though - I wouldn't be ready to try another higher weight for 3-4 months, so I might need to rethink that if I want to deadlift bodyweight this year

I've always found over the years that the DL does not benefit from a lot of work at heavy weights. If you want to do a ton of volume for the pull, it should be light - 50-70% of your 1RM or so. If you want to train it heavy, the DL likes either lots of single reps, or probably better for you, One Hard Set.

That is, warm up, hit your best set of 5-6, and call it quits.

The cycle you've outlined isn't bad per se, but if you're interested in getting stronger, there are much faster ways to go about it. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably shoot for the One Hard Set (of 5-6 reps) once a week, trying to add a small amount of weight each week - even if it's just 2.5kg.

Basic progressive overload should carry you a long way. Once you're stronger, the 4-6 week cycles of varied reps can be useful, but IMO it's counterproductive for a beginner. You should be able to get away with basic progressive overload for now.

ThePman wrote:Interesting. Do you have any history of knee injuries? If not, have you ever done a lot of long-distance running?

Generally I'm a fan of staying away from the Smith as a main movement, because it's really not at all the same as the free movement.

Also: This is long (about 50 minute) but absolutely invaluable RE: learning to squat.

Thanks for that, I'll check it out over the weekend when I have a spare 50 mins!

Definitely no running, long distance or otherwise - I avoid running at all costs I've injured both knees in the past though, both when overseas with no medical insurance, so untreated. One was only problem for a few weeks, but the other gave me intense pain for about 6 months, so they've both come back to haunt me. I didn't think about them at all until about 10 years later when I started doing step classes and had to stop because of the impact. Moral of the story - get insurance and get treated

You can mix squats and pulls on the same day, but *generally* you don't want to work them both heavy if you do - they overlap too many muscles so one will inevitably suffer from fatigue.

If you're interested in getting stronger, I'd do them on separate days, maybe squat Monday and pull Thursday, or something to that effect.

Sounds doable, thanks.

I've always found over the years that the DL does not benefit from a lot of work at heavy weights. If you want to do a ton of volume for the pull, it should be light - 50-70% of your 1RM or so. If you want to train it heavy, the DL likes either lots of single reps, or probably better for you, One Hard Set.

That is, warm up, hit your best set of 5-6, and call it quits.

The cycle you've outlined isn't bad per se, but if you're interested in getting stronger, there are much faster ways to go about it. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably shoot for the One Hard Set (of 5-6 reps) once a week, trying to add a small amount of weight each week - even if it's just 2.5kg.

Basic progressive overload should carry you a long way. Once you're stronger, the 4-6 week cycles of varied reps can be useful, but IMO it's counterproductive for a beginner. You should be able to get away with basic progressive overload for now.

Cool, thanks, I'll try that. My gym has 2 areas of freeweights - the area I've been using has a bunch of bars of different weights up to about 40kg at one branch of the gym and about 50kg at the other. So far I've just been using those bars, but I'll shift my butt over to the oly bars and work out what my 1RM actually is (I might surprise myself!) and try as you've suggested.

Many thanks

Haven't done anything of substance the last 2 days due to DOMS from Tuesday. Had planned on going to pump today - but have just scored free tix to today's Sevens, so can't fit it in. Oops - also busy all weekend, so that'll mean a total of 5 days off.

Ah well, I'll be all refreshed and ready to give my muscles hell next week!

Gonna have to rustle up something very last minute in the costume department - we've got costumes from last year, and of course our 80s costumes for next weekend's party - but no car in town and no time to public transport to J'ville and back to get them!

I've been told to avoid lunges when my knees are swollen. More damage than good apparently..

Yeah, I might ditch them altogether and just work on decent squats and be done with it.

Have started doing grown up weights this week. Have been doing BB chest press at J'ville but hadn't yet done it at Thorndon, so did my weeny girly BB chest weights with the big boys yesterday. Then today did some deadlifts with oly bar. Was a lot more convenient to load up the bar that way than to carry over a pre-loaded bar to a free position like I normally do. Did 40kg today, 5x5, with no difficulty, so will up it again next time.

Decided walking back from lunchtime session that I won't bother any more with cardio, other than the odd bit of light cardio on off days. I was going to keep up with it for fat burning purposes til the end of this week (til 80s party on Saturday), but decided that it's just too hot now to be bothering with something I hate.

Mentioned to someone that I was now officially over cardio for the next few months as it's too hot and it's pointless to my goals right now and she was like 'oh yeah, whatever' as though I was just being lazy (I don't consider lifting weights most lunchtimes to be lazy!). I started to try to explain that it wasn't necessary when my aim was building muscle but she started to get all know it all and more with the 'whatever'. This woman goes to the gym every day but she still waddles about like the obese person that she is, so it's really hard to think of her as any kind of expert - certainly not in putting stuff into practice anyway. Well, who knows, she might be super cardio fit or full of muscle under all that blubber, but she's still fat from what I can see, so she can shut her fat mouth about my workouts. [/end rant]

Hooray for the Oly bar... and a good solid start

As for what the ill-informed think, to them I say - it's your workout, your training goals...

And don't forget we want the proof that the '80s really were the decade that style forgot

teamfatboy wrote:And don't forget we want the proof that the '80s really were the decade that style forgot

I'll charge up the camera - but I'll wait and see what the pics look like before I am brave enough to put anything up

Did a dress rehearsal last night wit the 80s costume - hubby can't believe I'm going to wear it all night - though I have bought a very fetching pacman sweatshirt from trademe which is xxl (just how I wore things in the 80s) and which I'll probably change into later on if I get sick of the leotard ensemble. I also found a great rubic's cube necklace, which I suspect wasn't what people wore to the gym in the 80s, but which looks great with my outfit

This 5x5 effort with increased weights is definitely giving me killer DOMS. I only managed to get to the gym 3 days last week, mostly due to feeling too sore to work anything (oh yeah, and freebie Sevens tickets!), and I think this week is going to be similar, but I'll definitely aim for more workouts.

I had a 'pushing' upper body day on Monday, then lower body yesterday with a focus on deads. I'm going to just have a light cardio lunchbreak today, with some abs thrown in for good measure.

Current plan is to work more or less like this:

1. Upper body (pushing) - primary exercise = chest press
2. Lower body - primary exercise = squat
3. Rest day (if a weekend) OR light cardio/abs if a work day (need the break in the day)
4. Upper body (pulling) - primary exercise = I'm thinking something in a row (we call them deadrows at pump - is that right?)
5. Lower body - primary exercise = stiff legged deadlifts
6. Rest day (as above - rest if a weekend, or light cardio/abs if a work day)
7. Start the cycle over.

So I'll be focusing on my primary exercises each day, then adding in some related accessory exercises depending on what day it is and what time I have.

Chillicat wrote:Current plan is to work more or less like this:

1. Upper body (pushing) - primary exercise = chest press
2. Lower body - primary exercise = squat
3. Rest day (if a weekend) OR light cardio/abs if a work day (need the break in the day)
4. Upper body (pulling) - primary exercise = I'm thinking something in a row (we call them deadrows at pump - is that right?)
5. Lower body - primary exercise = stiff legged deadlifts
6. Rest day (as above - rest if a weekend, or light cardio/abs if a work day)
7. Start the cycle over.

That 'dead-row' is a combination deadlift and bent-over row... if I'm remembering them right, you do one deadlift, then come half way up, and do a row. So, a pulling exercise like a bentover BB row, or seated WG row/ CG Row would work.

Yay for Squats and SLDLs and Bench too... all good stuff

teamfatboy wrote:That 'dead-row' is a combination deadlift and bent-over row... if I'm remembering them right, you do one deadlift, then come half way up, and do a row. So, a pulling exercise like a bentover BB row, or seated WG row/ CG Row would work.

Yay for Squats and SLDLs and Bench too... all good stuff

Yeah, bentover BB row is what I've been doing (forgot the name!) - so rather than doing the deadrow a la pump class: dead, then half way up then row, then back to start, I have been doing the dead, coming up and doing sets of just rows, then back to starting position. If that makes sense!

Did my last freebie day at LM today. I've still got a couple of days left, but it's squat day tomorrow and I want to do it at Thorndon.

Went to LM a bit later than usual today, and bloody hell I'm glad it's my last day there - it absolutely reeked of sweat. It was so ripe, I just did my rows, did a couple of other quick bits then got the hell out of there. And I've doused myself with perfume so that I can smell something different, as it feels as though the stench of other people's sweat has clung to me and lodged itself in my nostrils. Gross.

Did my last freebie day at LM today. I've still got a couple of days left, but it's squat day tomorrow and I want to do it at Thorndon.

Went to LM a bit later than usual today, and bloody hell I'm glad it's my last day there - it absolutely reeked of sweat. It was so ripe, I just did my rows, did a couple of other quick bits then got the hell out of there. And I've doused myself with perfume so that I can smell something different, as it feels as though the stench of other people's sweat has clung to me and lodged itself in my nostrils. Gross.

Chillicat wrote:Went to LM a bit later than usual today, and bloody hell I'm glad it's my last day there - it absolutely reeked of sweat. It was so ripe, I just did my rows, did a couple of other quick bits then got the hell out of there. And I've doused myself with perfume so that I can smell something different, as it feels as though the stench of other people's sweat has clung to me and lodged itself in my nostrils. Gross.

Thanks for sharing that fragrant scene with us so eloquently, CC!

What time tomorrow for te squatz ? I might be there lunchtime...

Oh, and did you ever do one of Murray's spin classes at JCF? He's taking a lot of the lunchtime classes in Thorndon now.. it was better than my experience last Friday, but I have to say, the lad's a bit of a chunky monkey... far from being the leanest instructor you'll ever see not that I can talk